Sorry, Had to move this up - It deserves attention for the start of the week...
Folks, I believe someone has finally found a plan that we can all agree on. It's not a separation of Church and State that is the answer, its a separation of School and State!
Whether you believe that children should be taught religion in public schools or you feel jilted by a 9% increase in your property taxes - this man has a plan that solves it all and it would be reasonable to accept on all fronts.
Mr. Jeff Jacoby, a columnist for The Boston Globe asks "Imagine how diverse and lively American education would be if it were liberated from government control." His commentary is much to long to include here, but please take a moment and read it at the link attached below. I truly believe it is the solution to all of our arguments. Once you read it come back and discuss the possiblities...
Jeff's Article
Jun 20, 2005
We've All Been Fighting The Wrong Battle! - Read this
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37 comments:
This is an excellent article, and I'm all for it. QUESTION: How do we make this plan a reality????
I'm open to suggestions on both questions: planning for reality and transition - planning first?
We need legislators... someone who can get the wheels spinning -
OK badsign42--Here's a challenge for you in your capacity as an attorney.--Are you familiar with how to draft legislation? If so would you be able to prepare a piece of draft legislation that can be presented to State Legislators who may be receptive to the concept PA suggested, and which was outlined in Jeff Jacoby's article??
Your thoughts on this?
And PA feel free to add your input here as well.
Some resources on this issue found on the internet:
http://www.honestedu.org/index.php
To badsign & PA Most interesting. I will check out the website.
Do a search on "Separation of State and Church"... I found little more...
The last name of the Senator from Pennsylvania is Rohrer - from upstate... The more I know the more I'll pass on.
PA-There is a Samuel Rohrer in the State House. Is this who you mean??
Yep that's it - Berks County
Has he drafted any legislation on this subject?
Its in committee from what I understand -
As I pondered this idea further there is one thing that nags at me that would definitedly have to be resolved. Someone mentioned to me that must still be some level of regulation on curriculum to assure that each student is provided a base that education is to provide for all children. Math, Science, and American History and the Arts in particular. Special scrutiny would also have to be placed on the administrators of these schools to assure that terrorist or other deviant policies are not taught in an attempt to overthrow or circumvent our current system of government. - Thoughts?
There are also stepping stones to this final method of reform as well including the release of taxpayers from funding the schools or release of tax funding to allow those to chose the school that they would like to attend.
This would not only benefit the students, it would also greatly benefit the teachers because the good ones (as well as specialized ones) would be in high demand and would receive more appropriate salaries.
Do you know a Bill Number??
Not yet.., emailed Rep Rohrer to ellaborate on where the bill stands and on information on it.
Another point to consider is that when curricula are developed, we must ensure that the bureaucrats don't turn them in a bunch of politically correct BS--Remember OBE and the concept of "it's not whether you get the right answer?" This is exactly the kind of dangerous nonsense we must avoid at all costs. May I suggest in the interim that you check out the PA Department of Education's website and look at the Academic Standards in the areas you referenced in your last comment. Also we will eventually need to begin identifying State Representatives and Senators who will support this concept. Your thoughts???
Don't we already have something like this in place? Private Schooling anyone? I mean, if you don't like what your children are being taught in public school systems, put them in private school. I know money is an issue for some, but if the government stops paying for the major costs of schooling, everyone will have to pay tuition... What do I know? I kind of liked the diversity of my public school, you learn more than just math and science. You learn tolerance and understanding. If you group all the Christians in schools together, and all the Non-believers wouldn't that just cause problems later on in life when these two groups are forced to mix in social or work situations? Just a thought.
Your comments are understood however this is more than simply a money issue..it is an issue of morality and beliefs.
My tax money goes to support a school system which teaches supposed diversity (Homosexuality is not a diversity in my opinion), as well as holds policies which are contrary to my beliefs. I haven't the ability to say that giving out condoms to 15-18 year olds is wrong so you will not use my tax money to support your school system.
I should have the same rights via benefit of my tax money as others wouldn't you agree? Unfortunately under the current system, I am not allowed to take my rightful tax payment and apply it to paying for my childrens' education in a school at which they are taught values that I agree with. Thus I am paying money to a system yearly to support their agenda and curriculum in addition to having to spend more for their tuition.
As I said in my earlier comment, if taxpayers were allowed to take the alotted tax assessment and apply it to the school of their choice it would solve this issue altogether.
The issue of whether there would be problems later in life between those who attended religious or private schools and those who attended public schools - There doesn't seem to be an issue today so I'm not sure there would be one where this scenario exists... the problem lies when you force people of faith to financially support teachings that they are against or that are in contradiction to their conscience.
People who don't even have children or have children school age still pay for public schooling. If we make it where you can say that you want your tax money to go to your child's private school tuition as opposed to the public school costs, what about the ones who don't have children. Do they get to apply their money to their property taxes? Refund? Doubtful. I understand what you're saying, in theory it doesn't sound very bad. In practice, however, I find it hard to impliment.
BTW: You didn't address my point about seperating groups of people...
Taking even the religious aspects of it away, there are still issues in regards to revisionist American History, as well as extra-curricular activities being given financial priority. For example: why should taxpayers foot the bill for a new athletic field when the old one is perfectly appropriate or could be enhanced for a fraction of the cost... The priority for tax funding should go to curriculum 100% - there are booster clubs that can and should be responsible for the latter.
Disregard the "BTW" section...
Very good point about those not having any children in school. Property taxes are the biggest con in government today. I believe the real question would be "why do people without children have to foot the bill for schooling?"
Property taxes as a whole have been a cash-cow for school districts for decades. The boards and only the boards have the authority to raise or lower these taxes and as we all have seen - they never lower them
Extracurricular activies are not limited to sports. Should we cut out funding for Art, Music, Theather, or Shop? In my highschool, ticket sales to the games generated a lot of revenue for the school, which was not used solely on sports programs.
I'll have to take your word on the tax information there PA, the only property taxes I pay are on my truck. But there again, everyone hates taxes.
Absolutely not. But realistically do you propose that athletics ellicit the same priority as theater or Music? - While I am a big fan of sports (played Football, basketball and baseball) I am also a realist when it comes to the fact that these programs also have associations that gleam thousands of dollars away from the school in ticket sales and consessions way over and above that of their donations. They also draw much larger line items in the budget due to transportation and daily and monthly maintenance costs.
Sports programs have a higher cost to maintain, but I believe they generate more than enough to make up for that. All programs should receive the same amount of tax dollars, if that's what you're saying I agree with you.
Maybe we (residents of PA) are a bit more sensitive to this than other states...but to give you an example: a person owning a 100,000 home in PA (depending on their school district) pays an average of $1700 a year in property taxes. The assessment of that home can be redone as often as the district feels necessary and the percentage can increase yearly based on the boards needs for financing.
In regard to the taxation in PA: the most simpliest terms I can think of: That sucks! Please forgive my ignorance, but do property taxes not go for anything other than public schooling?
My basic premise is that schools should stick to basic education (Not that they shouldn't provide these extracurricular ones)
Math, science, social studies and language and this should be the extent of public financing for education. The remaining clubs, activities etc should be governed and paid for by booster groups and supporters of those activities.
However that is really off subject a bit. The original problem would still then exist and would still need addressing.
I wish I could give you exact percentage but I am safe in saying that over 90 percent of School taxes (property taxes) go to the school district in which you live.
That's very interesting, I didn't realize it was that high. So I assume that you would like to eliminate property taxes and have people just pay tuition?
Either that or again allow everyone to chose the school in which they would like their taxes applied. Here in lies the problem. Those who are against school choice are primarily because they see it as a "separation of church and state issue" - If I chose to use my tax money to send my children to a private or parochial school they will cry foul. This in turn is why I support a complete separation of school and government. Eliminate school taxes altogether, let everyone decide where they will send their kids and then they are responsible for the costs. It will benefit the kids because there will be competition amongst all the schools and it will increase the accountablity, it will benefit teachers since the good ones will be in high demand and will be paid as such, and it will benefit the taxpayers since those without children will not continue to be gauged for property revenue.
Again, this is a good idea in theory, I just see it as hard to be implimented. What about the parents who can't afford to pay the tuition costs? The government will have to step in and help them because education is so important. That money will there again come from tax payers, some who are already paying for schooling their own kids, and some who don't have kids and are probably starting to resent children in general... ;) It just seems to me that there are too many holes in the idea that's all.
:) - the same was said by American colonists back in 1769 - great idea but too many holes :)
A little debate and some concrete resolve can fix any hole.
You've never been to a school that hands out condoms. Does that mean it doesn't exist? - I've been accused of not allowing you to voice your opinion - in this case you have. Your school is and "any of the schools you've been in" haven't but I can assure you that across the United States it happens more than you are willing to admit or know of.
What makes you think I've never gone to a high school? I'm sorry but that's just plain stupidity. I'm 36 years old, you don't think I haven't had brothers, cousins, friends, co-workers, and associates who I knew while in high school and since...
OK Anon - I admit it you are right there are no condoms being passed out anywhere in the country I'm full of crap. Happy?
I've attended MANY school board meetings to no avail. The board is not bound by democratic principles. You can voice your displeasure with something they are planning to do but they simple vote anyway. Since (as in most elections) people are ignorant to issues, they continue to be voted back in
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